Monday, August 16, 2010

Straight Talk About Self-Defense Shootings.

Chicago, IL—Tough times, political turmoil, and interrupted entitlements will invite predatory crimes particularly in large American cities.  Since the Supreme Court has applied the second Amendment to the states they really can’t prevent you from bearing or carrying arms.
Avoid conflict but if you can’t and must use deadly force remember the four most important words to tell police if they make contact with you, “I want a lawyer.”
Recover all weapons used against you for your lawyer. Weapons left at the scene will disappear otherwise. Don’t tamper with evidence. 
Anyone who thinks they can trust police and prosecutors to do the right thing if they cooperate is nuts. If you don’t think this is sound advice, bring it up with your lawyer.
The Subway Vigilante in New York was out of reach of police, prosecutors and lawyers for the thugs that he shot in self-defense.  Bernhard Goetz was doing just fine until he walked into a police station and told them what happened. That cost Goetz more than he ever dreamed. Learn from Goetz.
Take a few minutes to view this video


Anonymous said...

I saw your video on Shave and watched it. Great video and thank you for makingit.

Anonymous said...

I saw it on DSLC too. You are right on the money Paul. Good luck with your video.

Anonymous said...

Over 200 views so far Paul! You are the man. Great blog and great video.

HI-CALIBER Private Investigations said...

Paul great video and great message. However the DA WILL tell the jurors, in trial that the shooter was “uncooperative.” The defense Atty will need to clear that up in closing arguments. I will share your video

Paul Huebl Crimefile News said...

If any prosecutor dares raise the refusal of an accused to cooperate was by not waiving his Fifth Amendment Rights and making statements that will bring an instant mistrial in all 50 states.

Anonymous said...

Your video comes at just the right time as we approach very dangerous times. I live in Chicago and carry a 1911 .45 ACP with me nearly everywhere. My concealed weapon permit is the Second Amendment.
God help anyone who wants to victimize me or my family. I will shoot them out of their shoes and I will vanish. The cops can try to figure out what happened without my help.

I suspect that more Americans will be saying no to criminal violence as they pull the trigger rather than be victims.

Anonymous said...

“Recover all weapons used against you for your lawyer. Weapons left at the scene will disappear otherwise. Don’t tamper with evidence.”

OK, Paul, I have to disagree with you on this one.

First, removing evidence from a crime scene and sequestering it is evidence tampering.

Second, in California, at least, unless the police know you and have an axe to grind, it is extremely unlikely that the weapon with which you are attacked will “disappear” if you place it in the hands of responding police officers.

In addition, it is far better to have the police and prosecution in the chain of custody then some defense consultant—which opens you up to the argument that the gun or other assailant weapon is a defense invention.

Don’t count on the perpetrator’s fingerprints being on the weapon either. It is not uncommon to get no usable lifts off of a gun or knife.

Third, I would respectfully suggest being the one to call 911, then going on record at the scene stating that it was “self defense”, then asking if you are free to leave (they will say we prefer you to come to the station to “clear this up”) and only then invoking your right to remain silent by asking for a lawyer, as many times as you are asked follow up questions in front of as many witnesses as possible.

Fourth, avoid epithets when referencing your assailant.

Remember, once self defense is tendered in a criminal case, any and all evidence of the “victim’s” (assailant’s) character for assaultiveness, whether it be reputation evidence, arrest records, testimony by other victims, and criminal convictions of crimes involving violence is not only discoverable by your attorney but fair game at trial.

Paul Huebl Crimefile News said...

Taking the weapons is absolutely necessary for your own and public safety. Protecting them under those circumstances is both proper and reasonable. The weapons would surely disappear before the police arrived.

Any conversations with police can and will be used against the accused. Under your failed logic the accused would be admitting he was there and that he had an violent armed encounter. That sir is a confession, no less and no more!

Evidence of the background of an accuser is often excluded for various reasons. California is more generous with this than Arizona. Most stats don’t allow that kind of evidence in unless the accused can show he knew about it before the violent confrontation. Arizona does not allow any prior bad acts including murder to be admitted to juries if the act is more than ten years old.


Anonymous said...

Patrol officer:
I’d like to help you all I can but you’re going to have to help me understand what happened here. If you want my help, you must help me.

Self-defense shooter:
Okay officer, since you put it that way, I had to shoot them because I was in fear of my life. The both had guns.

Patrol officer’s report:
General Offense Case Report ---Homicide/Murder Cleared by Arrest
Reporting officer arrived on the scene of the grocery store parking lot and found two males dead. Two female witnesses said they heard shots and saw a man running from the scene. They said that later another man approached the dead victims and left the scene before police arrived.

R/O found shell casings left at the shooting but no weapons.

R/O made contact with the store and learned the probable running man’s identity and home address. R/O made contact with the suspect who admitted shooting the two victims claiming they were armed.

R/O arrested the suspect and advised him of rights, and called for a transport wagon and notified Homicide investigators.

The rest of the story:
The weapons of both offenders were grabbed by a nearby ghetto rat for use in future crimes. Accordingly they were never even seen or recovered by police.

The homicide dicks do a follow up and find no evidence beyond the confession by the suspect, to shooting the victims. Case sent to the States Attorney that approves charges.

Bail is set at $500.000.00 or more, a public defender is appointed and then suspect stays in jail for over a year pending trial. In the time it takes to go to trial the accused loses his job, income home, car and too often his spouse.

Trial happens and with any luck he gets acquitted and dumped on the street wearing the very same clothes he was arrest wearing. Now he is homeless.

There is usually nobody he can sue for his travails

Sure, go ahead and help the police, help you into that kind of a scenario. Paul is right, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!

Paul Huebl Crimefile News said...

I got a couple of questions about the weapons used by the attacker in the crime and collected by the victim using self-defense.

In a perfect world the victim would bring the weapons to a good criminal attorney and if the lawyer knew the circumstances the weapons were obtained he’d arrange to have them picked up by or otherwise turned over to police. The lawyer would most likely tell the police that the weapons were seized for personal and public safety by the surviving victim from the offenders of that violent incident.

By now the police may know the background of the offenders and that may signal police that this was a justifiable shooting. They may also draw conclusions that the criminals were involved in an armed dispute rather than a robbery or carjacking.

Police would of course demand to know who the lawyer’s client was and that information would be politely refused citing lawyer client confidentiality. That interrogation would end but police might be looking doe evidence of anyone entering the law office or building where it is located.

The police doing their job would try and determine the ownership of the recovered weapons, DNA evidence and their relation to the investigation. With any luck they evidence would link properly. At least if an arrest happens, the surviving victim could testify about just how they wound up in his possession.

If you don’t have the money for a lawyer I’d put the evidence in a safety deposit box somewhere and save it for after an arrest for your public defender. Since you kept you big mouth shut tight you may never meet a public defender. Under those circumstances the weapons will gather dust for a very long time.

The safety deposit box key or rental contracts may well be discovered if a search warrant is served. Pay cash for the rental and make sure the key or papers are in not in your home, office or vehicles.

There are other somewhat complicated ways to get the weapons to police but the risk of exposure and inviting a police interrogation are too great. Remember your goal I to not incriminate yourself in anyway.

You are not obstructing justice when you are invoking your right to remain silent.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your very informative post. I understand you're not a lawyer, but I live in NJ and travel often daily into the police state of NYC. If I get caught with a weapon, I'll get the Plexico Burress treatment. God knows Bloomberg the Idiot would see to that. I've been mulling concealed carry of an H&K compact .40 on my ankle. My biggest fear is getting searched as I travel through some pretty major transportation hubs in the city. However, from what I've seen the NYPD and PAPD mainly check bags, and I've never seen an honest to goodness full body search. Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated. Thanks for your post!

Anonymous said...


Paul, I've been reading some of your old post's. I deem them very educational.

But I'm still trying to grasp what you are saying in regards to leaving the scene of where a victim protected his own life, and can only think of one of the favorite words of LAW, and that is reasonableness.

Wouldn't the law state somewhere that it is reasonable for a victim, who inflicted justifiable harm to his attacker, to take some type of "reasonable action" to notify the police, so they may respond and conduct a timely investigation?

Another thought comes to mind at this moment. The victim/self defender, leaves the scene prior to determining if the attacker is alive or dead, and then later is found guilty of not making a reasonable call for EMS. Certainly as police officers, immediately after a shooting they are on the radio calling EMS. At least in a civil trial they could rule that he would not have bled-out had you, the defender, called EMS?

I assume what you are sating is based on dialogue with professionals, court findings, and years of experience, but I can't help but think that disappearing into the night, putting the weapons in storage, and trying to remain un-identified is not in someway a crime according to some criminal code???

Thank You

Paul Huebl Crimefile News said...

Trying to put common sense where there is none won’t save you from an unwarranted and unfair criminal prosecution. Invoking your Constitutional rights on the other hand will protect you.

Reasonable action is you get away from the danger, shut-up and go listen to a criminal defense lawyer. That will save you from the un-Godly cost of defending your justifiable actions in court as a criminal defendant.

There are no laws requiring that you report your use of deadly force whether lawful or otherwise.

They cannot use your remaining silent against you in America.

You can let a seasoned CRIMINAL LAW SPECIALIST determine whether you should cooperate with authorities. I’ve not found one yet that will let someone using justifiable deadly force blab with and to the cops.

Your lawyer can tell the cops whatever he wants and they can’t use what he says against you.

You have been programmed by too much television that suggests the cops and prosecutors always are
heroes and do the right thing.

If you don’t think my advice is correct, call a real criminal lawyer and ask. It’s much better that you resolve this conflict now than after you’re involved in a shooting.

Remember a gun does not make you braver, smarter or taller but it does give you a meaningful way to protect yourself in the gravest extreme.

Conflict avoidance is always the best policy. Don’t display that middle finger, spare the insults and you may save your life, home marriage and job.